07. Le Donk and Scor-Zay-Zee with Joe Cunningham Transcript

[90 Mins or Less Film Fest Music]

SAM  0:20 Hello, I'm Sam Clements and welcome to the 90 Minutes or Less Film Fest. This is a podcast that celebrates films with a 90 minute or less runtime and is entirely curated by guests on this podcast. Today, we are joined by Joe Cunningham, presenter of the Cinematic Universe podcast, a podcast all about comic book movie adaptations. Hello, Joe. 

JOE:  0:43 Hey, Sam. How's it going? 

SAM  0:44 Very well. Thank you. Thank you for dialing in. 

JOE:  0:47 Well, thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited to be talking about short movies. As I think I mentioned when I was briefly on the Christmas special, comic book movies don't tend to be 90 minutes or less. So I deal with lots of long bloated movies and it's nice to be talking about something nice and compact today. 

SAM  1:05 I was gonna say, so you're a big cinema fan. I see you on letterboxd and Twitter talking about movies. Comic book movies don't seem to do the 90 minutes or less thing.

JOE:  1:14 No although there was Teen Titans Go! To The Movies which I think a couple of your guests picked out on the Christmas special last year. But yeah, mostly you're talking about 2 hours 10 minutes has been a brisk superhero movie.

SAM  1:29 So because you host the Cinematic Universe podcast, do comic book adaptations take priority when  it comes to choosing a new film to watch at the cinema? 

JOE:  1:38 New comic book adaptations do tend to be the ones that just for our podcast, we do have to see, so it does get to that tricky situation 'oh god, I need to carve out some time to Venom this week'. But yeah, I try not to let, I try and make them be additional cinema visits rather than the cinema visits if I can. But you'll know as well as I do Sam, now that when it comes when it comes to watching movies I feel like the cinema is just you know, one facet. I'm watching DVDs, I'm streaming and yeah, it's a nonstop thing and yes, letterboxd has become a kind of an obsession for me where tracking what I watched throughout the year and I think it was just comic book movies. I'd go insane. So yeah, nice to get a mix in there. And at this time of year it's more a case of trying to catch up on all of the Oscar nominated movies than it is all of the comic book movies that I've missed, because probably haven't missed any. 

SAM  2:31 Good, you've got to do your homework. 

JOE:  2:33 Yeah, absolutely. And I've always been a believer in trying to see stuff not just because I think it's good because I don't think you appreciate the good movies unless you see the bad ones as well. So you know, it's nice to see something absolutely naff once in a while. But some stuff I'll try and avoid but yeah, get a good mix of good and bad, long and short, eh we'll bring it back to the point in hand, and yeah, superhero and non-superhero. 

SAM  3:01 And when it comes to choosing a film does runtime ever come into your decision making process? 

JOE:  3:05 I would actually say no when I'm at the cinema because if I'm at the cinema, you know, I'm there to enjoy myself and hopefully I'm not in too much of a rush. At home yes sometimes, I think you know if I think ooo I'd quite like to watch a movie before I go to bed and if it's already like half nine, I might be thinking 'you know what I could get a 90 minutes in and still be upstairs in bed for 11' .So yeah at home I think it does a little bit more.

SAM  3:33 You sound like a man who's got it all figured out. So when it came to the 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival and we were having a chat about what film you could put forward for the fest, how did you go about that decision making process? Did you have like a number of films in mind?

JOE:  3:49 So I was listening to the early episodes of your podcasts Sam before you asked me to guest on on the show itself and I heard a lot of people. I think some people had, like, it had come straight to mind and others that gone 'oh god, what? What movies are 90 minutes or less'? And I really didn't want to sit down in front of  Google and like, go, 'I could do that because that's really good. Or I could do that'. I just tried to think of movies that could be 90 minutes or less. And in fact, I was driving with my wife and I said, 'ooh is such and such 90 minutes? Ahh no, it's 96. What about this? No, 94' and then I was like, I remembered the movie that we're going to talk about. And I was like, I am sure that is like around 70 minutes long. And it was and so I felt quite proud that I landed on this without having to Google and also because it was a movie that I thought would be a little bit different from maybe what you've covered so far in the show. So I have picked Shane Meadows 2009 movie Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee.

[90 Mins or Less Film Fest Jingle]

SAM  4:55 So, I've got a copy of the DVD here and on the back of the box: rock roadie and failed musician Le Donk (Paddy Considine) is a f***-up, he's lost his girlfriend (Olivia Colman), and his life has turned to shit. So Donk sets out to see if he can make rap prodigy Scor-Zay-Zee (playing himself) a star and turn his own life around with a little help from the Arctic Monkeys. Meadows' hilarious rockumentary follows the duo on a journey of a lifetime, an unpredictable, irrepressible ode to spontaneous filmmaking. Right. So this is going to be a spoiler filled chat about Shane Meadows' 2009 film, as you mentioned, Joe. First up, this film has a beautiful runtime, you followed the brief to the letter. 74 minutes on the BBFC website. Magnificent.

JOE:  5:44 I know we don't even have to get into credits, we don't have to get into whether the DVD version is longer than the blu-ray or whatever. This is coming under 90 whichever way you try and cut it up, you could probably add the deleted scenes in there and still get in under 90.

SAM  5:58 Absolutely and on the DVD there are plenty of deleted scenes, I have to say, it's quite a nice, quite a nice package. Got lots of good quotes on here as well, including a four star review from Total Film and a quote from FHM, which you don't see on DVDs anymore. FHM call it 'the Spinal Tap of Midlands white-boy rap'.

JOE:  6:17 Yeah, the comparisons that are rolled out there, This is Spinal Tap and I'm Still Here, I think are the ones that are there on the Wikipedia page. I don't know why, this doesn't feel in the same vein as the other, you know, the mock-doc music movies. It feels like I don't know, for me, it feels more a part of the Shane Meadows ouvre and like British independent filmmaking. 

SAM  6:43 I think also, we'll get into this more but I think the songs, whilst it is sort of a rock doc or whatever, the songs really do take a backseat, and it's more about the characters. Whereas in those other movies you mentioned, you could listen to the songs on Spotify or whatever after seeing the film and have quite a jolly time. 

JOE:  6:58 Absolutely. 

SAM  6:59 So I think film needs a bit of context. Because this was made as part of an experimental, sort of low budget film program that Warp Films and Shane Meadows were trying to get off the ground. And as far as I can see, I think this might be the only film ever made under that scheme.

JOE:  7:14 I think there was two and I think they were both...well, I mean, you might be able to correct me here, but I think they were both Shane Meadows films, because he followed this up almost immediately... Oh, actually, no, it was probably a couple years earlier wasn't it the movie Somers Town. So actually, you're probably right. But Somers Town shares a bit of DNA with this, in that it feels like a very, very low key movie that Shane Meadows was almost able to escape into, and kind of make something that is kind of low-fi but charming and, you know, sit comfortably under 90 minutes without feeling like it's something that he's just tossed off in his couple of days between movies.

SAM  7:57 So this film, Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee was made in 5 days. So the whole spiel about this was 'can Shane Meadows make a film in five days for less than £50,000', with Warp Films, with his regular film production company and his regular producer, Mark Herbert. And I guess to do that, they've made an improvised film. And Shane Meadows is in the film shooting the film. He's uh, he's one member of the camera crew, but he is playing director Shane Meadows and he talks about his other movies. So there's a bit of fourth wall breaking going on there. But Paddy Considine, his longtime friend and collaborator is in character for the whole film as Le Donk, sort of a failed musician turned roadie.

JOE:  8:37 I mean, I don't know about you, I kind of feel like this movie sums itself up in literally its first 30 seconds. I don't know if you want to bleep me here, but it's from the moment that Le Donk walks out of his caravan and he says, 'Let's go make music ****ing history' in his kind of faux-American cowboy accent. And he and  Scor-Zay-Zee, who is this, a real Nottingham based rapper who is wearing his New York Giants jersey the whole time and a cap that says 'Give Kids Hugs Not Drugs'. As they walk out onto stage at Old Trafford to open for as Le Donk calls them, the Arcticle Monkeys. I think it's kind of a crucial little opening because I think if you didn't have it there, it really sets the tone. It gives you such an idea. I mean, when Le Donk says that you hear Shane Meadows cracking up in the background, because it's clearly, as just about everything in this film is, an improv from Paddy Considine, that's cracked everyone else up and you're like, 'oh okay, so I get this guy'. He's funny, but I'm not sure he knows he's funny. And also, this movie's going to take us to them opening for the Arctic Monkeys because otherwise, about half an hour, 40 minutes into this 71 minute movie, you kind of wouldn't know what it was about. They're just following Le Donk and he's going to be a roadie for the Arctic Monkeys but you think well come on is going to be a bit of a stretch for them to actually get Scores up on stage like, like Le Donk wants him to. But yeah, this this kind of little, little sweet little 30 seconds at the start gives you the context that no, they are going to get there, just bear with this absolute headcase in the meantime, and he will take you to where we need to go. 

SAM  10:26  You just reminded me about one good detail about that, which also says a lot about the character of Donk. He's wearing his beanie hat and a cowboy hat on top of his hats. He's wearing two hats at the beginning of the film.

JOE:  10:36 He never takes the beanie off. And I think that might be something to do with the rather naff wig that is poking out from below it. 

FILM CLIP from Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee  10:43  
Shane Meadows: What is it say on your hat? 
Scor-Zay-Zee: Oh, yeah. Kids Need Hugs Not Drugs. 
Shane Meadows: Have a quick, can you bring it into the camera? 
Scor-Zay-Zee: Yeah. Yeah. I mean... 
Shane Meadows: Is that something you've come up with? 
Le Donk: Nah, it's my motif. 
Scor-Zay-Zee: Yeah, I mean it's good for the media to see that he's not a rapper that raps about, you know. 
Le Donk: Do you want me to leave you alone with him, or are you going to come back to me now? 

SAM  11:01  I think it's good that they have that scene at the beginning because you also see, I guess it's like Shane Meadows's message of making this film. And he was actually quoted in Screen magazine saying he wanted to stick two fingers up to the establishment and make a film with their own money and only five days. And I guess with that 30 seconds, he's like, 'look, I filled up a stadium of people, 50,000 people are here'. And you can sort of see the production values at that point, because they've got access to the Arctic Monkeys, because Warp Records I think rep the Arctic Monkeys and it's made under the same label as the film thing. So it's about them, I guess, using who they know and, and all that sort of stuff. Then after that sort of very brief section, you also get an animated title sequence, which I didn't expect to see, which I thought was quite charming.

JOE:  11:43 I remember after seeing this film for the first time I tracked down a bit of Scor-Zay-Zee's music and that track which is titled Rupert Brown, which is his name is really entertaining. And then yeah, this kind of scratchy animation that they put alongside it really fun. There's a bit of questionable lyrics towards the end and a bit of a grody bit of animation. It kind of sees off the song that I'm not convinced that if they made this movie in 2019, would still be in there. But otherwise, it's charming. Forget, forget that 30 seconds or so. Otherwise, it's charming. 

SAM  12:20  I think there's a fair bit of that sort of stuff in the film, which was like, 'Ooo, is that okay?' It might have been funny when they filmed it, but I think because they're improv-ing, and they're really really good mates, Shane Meadows and Paddy Considine, I sort of think like the filters are off a bit.

JOE:  12:35 And also because Donk is, he is a clown. He is the guy, I mean, and it's normally him that's saying that stuff. And you know he is he's reminiscent of... I mean, they said they based him on roadies, because Shane and Paddy were in a band together apparently back when they were school friends. And they said that, like there were roadies, who you know, would say 'oh, yeah, I've been touring with Black Sabbath'. And really, you know, they've been lugging stuff around at a pub gig down in Southampton or something like that. And so he's based on a kind of a, your classic like, BS merchant who, whilst for them was specific to a roadie, I think everyone has, has met people like that in a line of work, someone who every story is an embellishment and just wants to be the life and soul of everything, wants to be the center of every conversation. And because of that, they just open their mouth and don't really think about what they're saying. And so Donk comes out with some stuff in this movie that you're like, Oh, my god, is he saying, why is he saying that? That's either that's clearly nonsense, or oh god have you not learned that you shouldn't be saying that in front of people? But he is kind of an endearing idiot. And I think because, I think because this character is someone that the two of them have affection for, they almost put him on quite a redemptive art throughout the movie that he will, he will say stuff first and then kind of realise afterwards and kind of come back and apologise for it. Not always in the most appropriate way. But I think the message of the movie is Le Donk's heart is in the right place, even if his mouth isn't always.

SAM  14:23  You see that quite a lot throughout the film where, especially with Shane, who is a character in the film on the camera, where he will take him aside and he'll say 'Donk, did you mean to say that?’. It's quite nice seeing a filmmaker engage with his character like that on screen, I can't really think of any other times I've seen that.

JOE:  14:43 So you've got that interesting dynamic of yeah, Paddy is playing a character, but Shane's playing himself, and all of Shane's movies exist in there. Like he references his documentary about the Gypsy fighter doesn't it? It's an interesting vibe. And it is nice the way that the characters interact with each other because that's always the vibe I've got from Warp Films as well. That here are some, I mean, for me at the time anyway, local British guys doing good stuff in the industry and just trying to put the stuff that's interesting to them up on screen and see whether other people find it interesting too. I think this this might be more of a mix in terms of the reaction because the reviews for Le Donk were, yeah, I think you either find Le Donk funny, or you don't. And by that I mean the character. And if you don't I guess the good news is 71 minutes. But if you do great news because like if you find him funny, this is 70 minutes of just kind of like, trying to stifle laughter from everything he says. 

FILM CLIP from Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee  15:50  
Le Donk: Eh what's the craic? I thought there would be like loads of trucks and people, like, hanging around and that, and buffet trolleys and shit.
Shane Meadows: Obviously, it's a documentary size. Like I said, it's just like a documentary with a documentary crew.
Le Donk: You what mate?
Shane Meadows: A documentary crew.
Le Donk: Right! Yeah, I thought it was going to be a big film. I was wondering why you make a film about me anyway. 
Shane Meadows: Yeah, it's not like my other films with like a massive, massive crew or anything. 
Le Donk: Right. Do you wanna come in then?

JOE:  16:15 Le Donk starts of in Nottingham, he goes to see his pregnant wife played by Olivia Colman, Sam! 

SAM  16:21  It's crazy. I had, no I sort of, because I've seen this film, when it was first released. And I think then I was like, 'oh yeah Olivia Colman she's in Peep Show, that's cool'. But watching it now you're like, it's Olivia Colman, she's about to win an Oscar for The Favourite!

JOE:  16:34 And the journey she's been on in this 10 years is phenomenal. But here she is kind of on the one hand, I think it's strange casting. But on the other hand, kind of perfect, because you kind of wonder how did she put up with Donk in the first place, but also, she is kind of the perfect encapsulation of, well, if Donk threw this away... Because he really did, what does he say? I mean, it is really dark. But when she gets pregnant with his child, rather than asking her to get rid of it, he tries to get her drunk and then takes her on a rollercoaster. Which is, that's again, Sam I think, probably the stuff that wouldn't make it in anymore. But because of this character, you kind of let it slide because you're like, you know, it's probably the kind of stuff that this idiot would do. But she's just delightful. And the fact that she has a new boyfriend, and Donk is struggling with that. I think there's a bit of connective tissue and I don't know whether you'd agree, there's a tiny bit of connective tissue with Le Donk here and Stephen Graham's character in This Is England. That guy who sits in a room and you know there's kind of aggression and nastiness bubbling below the surface. And it's a time bomb as to when it will come out. The difference between the two is that because Donk's an idiot he can't quite cover it up the way that Stephen Graham's character does in This Is England. and he kind of flips zero to 60 doesn't he in This Is England and the violence that comes out at the end of that film.

SAM  18:08  I think that's something that you see in quite a few Shane Meadows characters, and I guess he did just come out of This Is England before working on Le Donk. I think Shane Meadows said he had a life sapping two years editing This Is England, and that's when they came up with the idea to do Le Donk

JOE:  18:24 I mean, you can understand. That's a movie that's dealing with some dark themes. This isn't so much and you've got the flip here with Donk, he's a guy who you can imagine if you piss them off, you would feel his wrath. But because he's got the cameras in front of him, he can't quite unleash that. And also, because he's a bit of an idiot, he can't quite handle it either. So he tries to be passive aggressive with the boyfriend, but just ends up being aggressive and kind of confronts him face-to-face and humiliates himself basically.

SAM  18:54  The boyfriend is played by Richard Graham who's the editor of the film and was the editor on Somers Town, and you just sort of feel like they're just bringing in whoever is available on the shoot to come and be in the film.

JOE:  19:03 But completely kind of holds his own because what that role demands is, which is kind of what every role in this movie I think demands almost, is to stand there next to Donk and go, I'm going to laugh at you when you're funny, but I'm just going to shake my head at you when you're embarrassing yourself.

SAM  19:19  It's quite interesting seeing Paddy Considine play a clown like this because he's usually playing quite a serious character. When you think of his say, Dead Man's Shoes character with Shane Meadows and his dramas that he's been in, but I was sort of trying to work out how maybe Olivia Colman came on board and of course, in 2006, they were both in Edgar Wright's Hot Fuzz, on the police force together. And I'd love to think that they just hit it off there. And he's like, all right, you can be in Le Donk, and I'm going to cast you in my directorial debut Tyrannosaur in a few years time. And then this like sort of friendship sparked.

JOE:  19:52 Hey, what a triple bill that would be by the way, the three Paddy and Olivia movies, getting progressively darker as well, I think throughout those three films. But yeah, I mean, I mean Hot Fuzz is probably, that is probably when I think of a Paddy Considine that's the comedic turn. He was also great in The Death of Stalin last year. I think he's great, Sam. He's one of those actors that it doesn't matter what he shows up in. Have you seen the Empire magazine, this is a decade old at this point, but they have this concept of 27 percenters who are actors who, they're never going to be like top of the bill in a Hollywood hundred million dollar movie. But anytime they turn up, they pique your interest by about 27% and Paddy Considine has to be one of those. In all of his work with Shane Meadows he's fantastic. I mean, and now as a filmmaker as well, I love the guy. I love that this movie exists which is basically just a vehicle for his comedic talent because coming out of Hot Fuzz, he definitely deserved it.

SAM  20:55  Totally that was the first time I've seen him be funny, but you're right he does have that he can do to comedy. Not enough people ask him to do the comedy, if more people could get Paddy in their comedic films that would be, that would be quite nice. Do you think the pacing because it's improvised, but they obviously must have had a few things blocked out like, we're gonna have a van, we're gonna have a scene with Olivia Colman at a house, we're going to do Old Trafford with the Arctic Monkeys. Do you feel like it's got like quite a satisfying narrative around those one liners and the gags?

JOE:  21:24 I think so, I think it's that they've clearly worked out that they need to do some stuff at home with Le Donk, we need to take him on the road. They then get their break and then he kind of tries to take the big break from Scor-Zay-Zee. I think it's a you know, it's a nice little neat narrative to just hang the improvisation around. It's nothing too complicated. And then there was that big kind of that big dilemma for Donk at the end, where does he go back to see his child and potentially miss the chance to perform with Scores in front of 50,000 people at Old Trafford. Yeah, it's neat. I think it's neat and tidy and I think it's appropriate for this movie which is, I think fairly feel good, that he's able to go back and see the baby and still get back and as he says make music history. 

SAM  22:15  It's called Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee. How do you think Scor-Zay-Zee comes across? Because for me he feels like a little bit of an afterthought. 

JOE:  22:23 Yeah, well I think if you look at the poster it's LE DONK & Scor-Zay-Zee. I think this is this is Shane Meadows seeing a local artist that he quite likes. Because he does, he sits in the background but at the same time when it, you know he's there. He's not a comedian. He's not an actor. He's a rapper. And I think basically Shane Meadows is there going 'I like you, I like what you do, I'm going to give you what showcase I can' and that is to stand on that stage at an Arctic Monkeys gig and perform. And I think anytime he raps you're like, yeah he is quite good, I'm enjoying this. And I think that's what he's there for and around Le Donk to just kind of act as you know... He's the one guy who never really breaks, he's the one guy who never laughs at Le Donk because he I think he's frustrated by him. And I think he's probably learnt, I think probably he knows both sides of Le Donk, which is that as you go through the movie as an audience member, you see he is an idiot, he is full of BS but there is kind of heart of gold below it all and I think Scores is probably seen that. So while Scores gets annoyed by him, he also knows here's a guy who was, I wouldn't be here without him so I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna say no. So what that leads to is a lot of yeah, a lot of straight man stuff where everyone else is either laughing or getting annoyed with Le Donk and Scores is just going, yeah, that's who he is. 

SAM  23:54  He's so good at not cracking or breaking character, because he just keeps that straight face when Paddy Considine's really going for it, which is admirable, especially for a first time actor and in something like this. You just reminded me of, so when they do inevitably play on stage, the line "calm down Deirdre Barlow" had me, that had me in stitches. As a music film, what do you think of that final music scene?

JOE:  24:20 It is a music film. But it's a musical comedy. The songs I think are there, or the Le Donk song at the end is there to make you laugh. Yes, yes, you know, Scores is doing some good verses, but the whole thing is, it's undercut by the comedy of what Le Donk is doing. I mean, so for anyone which I imagine there will be a lot of people who haven't seen this, Scores gets his break, Le Donk is saying, right, come on Scores, we need to figure out what you're going to play. And all of a sudden, they go into the hotel rooms to play it to the rest of the guys who are involved in the film, and Scores is rapping, but all of a sudden, Le Donk's got this piece of paper, he's rolling out this piece of paper. And before Scores has even finished, he's going 'Calm down Deirdre Barlow, calm down Tinky Winky' What? What's wait, what's going on? He explains that, he's gone, 'it's the randomness of it. You know, I'm telling these people to calm down because everyone gets irate every so often, don't they? And you know, it's just like everyone will do, so I'm just picking the random names and like because yeah, Hilda Ogden at one point, she will be needed to be told to calm down'. And at this point in the film you thinking well, obviously what's going to happen is Donk's going to learn the error of his ways and Scores is going to get up there and perform on his own. But no, we get we get to the final Old Trafford gig and we have this, this 'calm down' refrain, and then the song literally ends with Le Donk kind of fast rapping this list of random celebrity names. And all the time with his folded up piece of paper in front of him. The image of the guy with the beanie with the cowboy hat on top reading out those names. And yeah, and I don't know why, but Deirdre Barlow is the endearing you know, the enduring name from that.  It's the one that I walked away from and I think anyone who's ever seen it just, calm down Deirdre Barlow. That is that is musical comedy Sam.

SAM  26:23  I quite like the sort of ramshackle nature of their performance because he's playing a pre-mixed tune on a keyboard. That's his musical contribution, and then he has this folded up list of names. And I think at one point Donk's unsure about who's going to be on the list. And he's just writing everybody's name down. He's going to see what happens on the night.

FILM CLIP from Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee  26:40  
Le Donk: Just calm down Deirdre Barlow, just calm down Stephen Hawkings, calm down Tinky Winky, just calm down Mork and Mindy

JOE:  27:02 Yeah, this is a silly comedy. But also, it does have this like charming side to it. And it does have this sweetness in there as well. But the film never allows itself to fully embrace it because of the because of the character that Donk is. That is the arc for the character with the character increasingly owning up to being an idiot, but never quite being able to escape that. So right at the end, when he finds out that he has to... That's what I like as well. He knows he has to go back. He knows he has to go back and see the baby because that's his kid. But his first thought is, well, I mean, so if I can't perform, no one can perform. Not thinking that that is Scores's gig that he has managed to wheedle his way into. So that whole exchange where he's going back and forth and then he just goes, 'no, what am I doing? I'm being a clown here'. And it's kind of the like, the revelation for him that this journey that he's been on during the film, which is, this isn't about me. I've pushed my way in, why am I dressing it up? I'm pushing a button on the keyboard, anyone could do it Scores, you can do it and then go rap. Live your dream, man, I'm fine. And then goes back and says much the same thing to Olivia Colman's character, but at the same time, really, really wants to be back at Old Trafford. He's like, I've done the right thing. I'm here seeing my kid. But can I go now, please? But you also I don't know if you'd agree, Sam, you feel like, if she hadn't said go back, he wouldn't have gone back. He needs that kind of permission.

SAM  28:40  He's like a little kid in that respect. I guess like he's looking for some guidance from some people, from the grown ups in the film. Which is basically anyone else around him.

JOE:  28:50 And when she gives him the go ahead, he goes back. But I just think he's really sweet in that scene that you've kind of seen this progression of a character. And the movie doesn't, I don't think the movie needs to have that kind of growth, because it like, it's a movie that's set over 72 hours. But it does, it does have that mini-arc to Donk where he increasingly and I think through being surrounded by the slightly more level-headed people and not being the person who is always able to take over the room because everyone around him is more talented and probably more intelligent as well. He kind of checks himself and he does the right thing in the end. 

SAM  29:28  He wants to do the right thing. But he really, really wants to be on stage more than anything. And that's what motivates him throughout the whole movie, like when the film crew is following him and at the beginning he's like, 'oh, there's not many of you, what's going on?' Like he just wants to be a superstar.

JOE:  29:41 He is a nobody who spent his entire life telling people that he is a somebody, who finally gets that chance. And he's like, what he doesn't realise is that the chance to be a somebody is the being a parent to his kid, whereas he's got it in his head that it would be making a tit of myself for 2 minutes before the Arctic Monkeys come on stage.

[90 Mins or Less Film Fest Jingle]

SAM  30:10  Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee is in the 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival.

JOE:  30:14 And Sam at only 70 minutes you've got a bit of time free there, you know, because I imagine that you can pretty much keep your slots at the festival even length right? So I think we got a little bit more time at the screening to do some stuff around the edge. 

SAM  30:27  Well, that's a very good thing to bring up. So what we like to do at the film festival, you know, it's a treat to see these films on a big screen with an audience, best way to watch a movie in my opinion. But we also like to add some trimmings around the side. So what would you do Joe, in your dream Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee screening to heighten this event?

JOE:  30:44 I mean, I didn't even need to think about this. You just you just get Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee out to perform a couple of tunes, don't you? It's so simple. I mean, you don't, there's no thrills, maybe you could do a Q&A with Shane Meadows and Paddy Considine, but you know, with Shane, and Paddy in their movie personas. It has to be Le Donk the whole way through. I would love to see how that character composes himself when actually having to speak in front of the crowd. I imagine he would stay in that faux American accent the whole way through it. Because that's what he seems to be doing when he's really being the showman. Yeah, that'd be it would be, it would be so much fun. I you know, what? If tomorrow, these two guys said, 'we are going to make a Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee follow up that's going to be another 70 minutes', I would be on cloud nine. Maybe Sam, they could make a 90 minutes or less movie about performing at the 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival? 

SAM  31:40  It's the reunion show. That'd be great. Yeah, like, again, breaking that fourth wall and just continuing the story.

JOE:  31:46 Yeah. And then you'd have to play it at your, you know, whenever you come around to do the second festival. You'd have to play that movie at that festival. And it would, it would end up being the kind of ouroboros situation.

SAM  31:56  Have you seen on the DVD of Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee, there's a, the film had its world premiere at the Edinburgh Film Festival. Have you seen that little documentary?

JOE:  32:03 I haven't. No. Tell me about it. 

SAM  32:05  It's quite interesting. It basically sounds like they've reached into your brain and then gone back 10 years and have done what you would do. So I think also, the nice thing for me as a festival programmer is I can see that there's proof to your concept like it works. So they take Le Donk and Scor-Zay-Zee up to Edinburgh, Donk's in a bit of a grump because they don't have the main evening slot. They're in a small screen. And Shane Meadows is explaining to him 'it's a micro budget film mate, it's only made for £50,000. You know, it's really nice just to be here'. And they order a pink stretch Hummer for Scor-Zay-Zee to go to the screening in and they send Donk on a rickshaw and they just film the two of them and he's like ‘Shane Meadows doesn't know what he's doing, sending me on a rickshaw’. Not allowed in the limo with Scor-Zay-Zee and Scor-Zay-Zee is dressed in a big fur coat. And he's got sunglasses on and like a white cowboy hat and that's how they introduce the film, Donk in his beanie, Scor-Zay-Zee and his fur coat. They show you the after party as well which it really is like the party in the hotel in the movie, bottles of beer, packets of crisps, fold out tables, homemade banners.

JOE:  33:09 That's perfect but I guess how we are with one upping them there Sam is 10 years later we get to see how it where these characters are now and also our concept, we're literally making a sequel as they're playing at the 90 Minutes Fest.

SAM  33:23  The reunion show. Do you think we can get the Arctic Monkeys? How well connected are you Joe? 

JOE:  33:27 Probably not as well connected as Shane Meadows. I mean in this movie, it's funny isn't it? They kind of get to the Arcticle Monkeys, they all walk past at one point and then they get they've clearly had them for five minutes. But you know I mean Shane Meadows has obviously since gone on to make that epic documentary about The Stone Roses. Maybe we don't need the Arctic Monkeys, maybe this time Shane can bring The Stone Roses out and they can be there, they can be the subject of that sequel. 

SAM  33:54  This is sounding like more and more of a hot ticket as we go along, the acts are getting bigger and bigger. And I feel like I know the answer to this based on your love of the movie. But do you think this film could or should be longer than 90 minutes?

JOE:  34:07 It could be but what I think, what's so fun about this movie is how fast it rattles through and the pace it goes at. And I think rather than the movie being longer, it's good that deleted scenes are on the DVD. Watch the movie, watch the deleted scenes but keep the movie that perfect 70 or 72 minutes you said?

SAM  34:26   74 minutes for the theatrical version. 71 on DVD. 

JOE:  34:31 That’s your frame rate compression sandwich, which is gonna I can only imagine play havoc with some of your future guests.

SAM  34:37  I'm gonna have a really good time explaining that to the non-technical people,  that will be wonderful. So there we have it live Le Donk & Scor-Zay-Zee programmed in 90 Minutes or Less Film Festival headline slot with The Stone Roses and the Arctic Monkeys.

JOE:  34:50 And most importantly, Le Donk.

[90 Mins or Less Outro Bed]

SAM  35:00  So thank you very much for joining us, Joe. Where can people hear more of your voice on the internet?

JOE:  35:05 The Cinematic Universe podcast is where I do most of my stuff now. You can follow us on Twitter @cine_verse and I present the podcast alongside Seb Patrick and James Hunt. 

SAM  35:15  So thank you for listening. Please do like favourite, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or your podcatcher of choice. Hey, we're also on Spotify now. You can contact us at @90minfilmfest on Twitter and Instagram. And the show was produced by Louise Owen and me Sam Clements. Music is by Martin Austwick. The show is edited by Luke Smith and our artwork is by Sam Gilbey. The 90 Minutes or Less Film Fest will return in a few weeks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai